Monday, August 16, 2010

Walk A Mile - Modern Dating

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Good morning!  It's time again to walk a mile in the shoes of another.  To step into a stranger's life and take a look at the view.  

Today we'll be walking in Laura's shoes.  She's a witty, kooky college student, and she's stuck in that dreaded phase of dating and courtship.  (Raise your hand if you'd like to go back to that?)  


But dating in our day, (for those of us who have been out of the game for a while), was different than it is today.  Dating has changed in so many ways - texting, for one.  Anyone here ever been asked out via text message?  And how about location?  What kind of activity can be called a date?  I bet it's different now than it was ten or twenty years ago.  


Laura is bringing to our attention an issue that has been around for a while, but seems to be getting more complicated as time goes on.  Let's see what her thoughts are, shall we?....


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This is a mommy blog.  Can I assume you are all in the fantastic place that you are as a result of dating? How else does one get husbands and babies? Congratulations on your achievements!

As a 20 year old female college student, marriage and kids, and even dating, are not always my first concern, but these things are definitely held in mind as goals yet unconquered, so my hat is off to you! 

Dating  may be a required first step in the game, but it’s no secret - dating is NOT easy. In fact, to me, 'dating' and 'awkward' are not just synonymous, they are inseparable concepts in my mind. But there is one question in the world of courtship that I want to talk about in particular today.  Oh yes.  First came oppression and chivalry... Next came the feminist movement...  And now... that one eternal question... spanning the ages, still undefined... WHO SHOULD PAY ON A DATE?

As far as I can tell, there is little logic behind the thought process of men paying. I’d say most of my female peers say the guy can pay, because who wants to turn down free food? And the only explanation that I have come across for continuing the tradition is that it makes men feel “manly” to be allowed to pay, open doors, and generally enable helplessness in women.  


Ok, fine, I’m not here to bruise the male ego. If men want to provide, I think good for them! But this can be taken a little too far in my opinion. When polled on Facebook about the question, one friend of mine answered, and we had this exchange:

Me:  I say, why should the journey to find a potential mate be stacked in society as a necessarily (very) expensive thing for men, but a free-be for girls? What, to feed men's "egos" while trying to compensate for the pains of labor?!? Pish posh I say! Either way, go to a pumpkin farm, bake cookies, run around a field of daisies, do whatever horrifically cheesy thing you must do, but free, "creative" dates are a much better way to get to know someone.


Friend:  I didn't say the dates had to be expensive. It's a preview of married life and lets the man fulfill his role as provider. I say if they do it without complaint or expecting something in return, they harbor the maturity to see their role.


Me:  That's interesting... so how do women preview their role?


FriendNurturing, submitting, being respectful, allowing the male to do what he needs to do without seeing it as oppression or chauvinism. At the same time, trying to keep him pure and not tempting him or feeling like she has to repay him in some physical way for his paying for the date.


Does that not send a chill down your spine??

 
Then my friend, Gracie, who is the most awesome 18 year old rocking New York state, said this:

“In my case, since Joe's a starving student and I have a well-paying job and no expenses, I tend to pay for dates; he tries, but I shout him down. When I want to take him out, we can do whatever - go to a restaurant or a movie. When he wants to take me out, he packs a picnic at midnight and we watch the stars, or we go to a free concert. We put in, overall, probably equal effort-- but he is a bit more mindful of what he does. We hit museums, architecture tours, and the beautiful, old cemeteries that are so abundant here in the east.”

Um, yes. Can we agree?


The few guys my age who weighed in were vague, (aka clueless), and so that area of thought for them is still cloaked in mystery for me, which I think is great symbolism.  


I got a few comments from middle aged folks, (aka people who went to high school in the 60s and 70s! Scary.), and I even started calling my grandparents and young cousins so I could have an across the board survey of age groups and gender. But I realized, for the very young and very old, dating is either a faint memory, or in the distant future, and therefore they have little to say.  

The general consensus overall seems to be that the one doing the asking does the paying. But what about after that? What do YOU think? Let’s get a debate going in the comments! Tell me about your memorable experiences, oh ye experienced!!

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I feel like I'm opening a flood gate here, and it's all I can do to keep my opinion quiet and give you all a chance to sound off, toss in your two cents, whatever.  So tell us what you think!  And don't forget to check out Laura's Etsy shop...it made me giggle!

17 comments:

  1. Am I old fashioned? I think the guy should always pay on the first date. Maybe that's because I would never ask a guy out first so that's why I feel that way. It makes sense that whoever asks should pay...the first time.

    But after that? I think it's nice to take turns paying. On the second date, as a kind of unexpected surprise, I'll excuse myself to use the bathroom, hunt down my waitress and give her my credit card. The guys always liked that :)

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  2. Back in the stone ages, I always liked it when a guy paid on the first date... I think I'm old fashioned, too. However, I'm pretty sure when my husband and I were dating (we were poor college students), whoever paid was the usually person whose car ashtray had enough change to spring for the Taco Bell that night.

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  3. i do think whoever does the asking does the paying, but as it evolves into a serious relationship, it thinks women who think men need to always pay, might as well be living in the ice age. we women are capable to paying for dinner or a movie some of the time!

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  4. Very first date ever? I think whoever asks should BE WILLING to pay. However if I (was 18 and still dating) went out with a guy and he let me take the check with nary a protest, that would also be our last date.

    I think once your in an established relationship (which is after about 10 minutes these days right? :) ) it's ok to balance it out. He pays when you go out, but you (she) picks up the pizza and a blockbuster for Friday night date night.

    I want to know that my man can and will take care of me...even if I'm perfectly capable of doing so myself.

    That being said...Oh PRAISE JESUS I'm not in the dating world anymore.

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  5. I don't have much opinion on this subject. I kind of married the first guy I dated. Is that bad? (I still love him :)). He almost always paid, and never seemed to mind. I wouldn't have minded paying, and I totally get why the situation would be awkward :)

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  6. Great thoughts on the conundrum of dating in the millenium. Thanks for the sentiments!

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  7. Well that's the best piece of writing I have seen in a while! What DO you think Bethany?
    ~Laura

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  8. I love these posts!

    Yes--you ask--you pay!

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  9. My soon to be 16 yr old son says this about dating now days "First of all it's not really a date, it's more like hanging out. And if it is in a group of 5 or more then you all would just pay for yourself. But, if I asked a girl out on a date then I would pay for her and if she asked me out then, I would offer to pay."
    Interesting huh? I imagine that Alex will be trying to find some real cheap dates and/or free stuff to do on dates as he does not have a job, yet.

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  10. I agree that whoever asks, pays. But when it evolves into a relationship....then it's up to what works for you. With my first serious relationship, he expected me to pay for half of everything (and even though we worked at the same job, I made less because I hadn't worked there as long as him). And not just dates, we lived together for five years and every single bill/purchase/meal was split halfway. I did not want that kind of life in the long run because I knew I wanted to be a stay at home mom.
    When I started dating my husband, he pretty much always paid because he made more. But we got paid on opposite weeks so I always took him out a few times after I got paid. Now of course, he pays for everything but we don't view it as "his" money just because he works and I stay home with the kids.

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  11. I'm sorry, my heart stopped at the word "submitting" in your friend's response and I'm busy trying to resuscitate myself.

    I'm all for equality - I could care less who pays as long as it evens out in the end. It can't be a partnership if both parties' needs aren't being met...however that works out with the money, it works out.

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  12. I don't think who pays on the date has anything to do with submitting. I don't get that at all, that feels like "Well, you bought the pizza, now you own me." That's a little over the top for me.
    Assuming the fellow is gainfully employed,(or at least somewhat gainfully)I do think the guy should pay in the beginning. I think it shows that he values spending time with you and wants to spoil you a little. Qualities that you'll appreciate later and that if you give up in the beginning would be hard to get back, I'd think.
    But, after you're really in a "Relationship" with a big "R," I think it's cool to split the difference. Cook dinner for him, plan stuff and purchase the tickets in advance so it isn't a big deal.
    All this said, I think that taking his financial situation into account is the decent thing to do.

    I have three boys that may someday want to borrow money from me for dates. I reserve the right to change my mind. At the time, I may decide that the chic should pay!

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  13. I consider myself and expert on dating. I didn't get married until I was 34 so I was in dating mode for 18 years. It's hard.

    There are a lot of men and women out there that ooze desperation. People feel it. And those desperate people have no idea why people don't want to go out with them. They are so anxious to be married that they create pressure in a relationship. I dated people like that and it was awful. I'm sure I behaved like that in certain situations too.

    The most important thing to know is that you need to have good values and develop talents and skills that will help you find happiness with or without a partner.

    You have things to talk about and share with others and that makes you attractive. It helps you feel confident in who you are and what you have to offer. And, until the right person comes along, it helps you learn to enjoy time spent alone.

    As far as who pays, I can tell you this: Even if you make more money than your boyfriend, he should pay for dates. There are plenty of things you can do that don't cost a lot of money. I didn't expect this of the man I married. We always went dutch. And it really affected our relationship later. Men need to learn how to sacrifice the money they earn for someone else and dating helps them do this. You should pay and plan occasionally too, don't get me wrong, but he needs to do this as well, not just once in a while. Guys who are willing to pay and plan dates, are guys you want to hold on to. Trust me on this one.

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  14. I think that shot of tequila my husband bought for me was a pretty good investment.

    Seriously though, on a first date, I always insisted on dutch.

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  15. Now, I came back to see what your opinion was, where is it? I'm curious to see where you come down on this!

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  16. I think the dutch on a first date is a good idea, no guilt in case you aren't interested and don't want to go out again.

    I also neglected to mention, if you ask someone out, you should pay unless you determine up front you are going dutch. I hate it when it's unclear. I guy asked me out once to play golf. I assumed since he asked me, he would pay. Wrong!! I felt so stupid because I didn't bring my wallet!

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  17. I agree with "whoever asks, pays". And yes, when it evolves into a relationship, then it's okay to even things out a bit. But honestly, I would also see red flags in the guy that never even offers to pay - even if I did the asking.
    Another side note is that there is such a thing as male pride. In my married life, it is huge. If you don't let them indulge in this pride now and again, they tend to turn sulky and sad. Not someone I really want to spend a lot of time with. So, for heaven's sakes (and yours), if the guy wants to pay - let him pay!

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